tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7713282434144514700.post3043348747685865782..comments2023-10-02T15:01:43.213+01:00Comments on Chilcot's Cheating Us: The Death of David Kelly - "The Harrowdown Hill Challenge" (First Draft)Andrew Watthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03829322263100808179noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7713282434144514700.post-78874623992714268162011-06-05T08:29:55.919+01:002011-06-05T08:29:55.919+01:00For what it's worth, putting all the various v...For what it's worth, putting all the various verbal descriptions together that were given to Hutton, I think the following knife is the most likely candidate for being (or being very similar to) "the knife". <br /><br />It's the Sandvik-Bahco General Purpose knife: <a href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bahco-BAHKGP1-K-Gp-1-Pruning-Knife/dp/B0001IX7CE/ref=sr_1_3?s=diy&ie=UTF8&qid=1307258635&sr=1-3" rel="nofollow">Bahco K-Gp-1 Pruning Knife</a> and <a href="http://www.frostproof.com/catalog/hgp1.html" rel="nofollow">Sandvik-Bahco General Purpose Knife</a>.<br /><br />What that supposition is correct or not has yet to be confirmed.<br /><br />Another thing that also has to be confirmed is whether that model (or similar) knife would have been available in the 1950s (when David Kelly was a boy scout).Andrew Watthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03829322263100808179noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7713282434144514700.post-75393670576794224472011-06-05T08:00:27.395+01:002011-06-05T08:00:27.395+01:00Tim,
One can't completely exclude the possibi...Tim,<br /><br />One can't completely exclude the possibility that David Kelly made the initial wounds elsewhere. (Nor can one completely exclude the possibility that a second party made the wounds elsewhere.)<br /><br />As you imply that would indicate inadequacy of the forensic examination.<br /><br />No evidence was put forward at the Hutton Inquiry even hinting at his having made the wounds at another location, so far as I recall.Andrew Watthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03829322263100808179noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7713282434144514700.post-13529698284013951062011-06-05T07:53:35.447+01:002011-06-05T07:53:35.447+01:00Tim,
The box-cutting or gouging use of a knife de...Tim,<br /><br />The box-cutting or gouging use of a knife depends on the sharpness of the point, I think. If the point isn't sharp enough it would be very difficult to make a deep enough wound/hole.<br /><br />Also it would tend potentially to leave a very ragged wound at various levels of the wound.<br /><br />There is nothing in the description of the wounds in the postmortem report that leads me to conclude that the box-cutting approach applied. But, ideally, one would want to see the photographs of the wounds to completely exclude that possibility.Andrew Watthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03829322263100808179noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7713282434144514700.post-42051867798444838322011-06-05T07:48:53.328+01:002011-06-05T07:48:53.328+01:00Tim,
You're right about (at least part of) th...Tim,<br /><br />You're right about (at least part of) the blade (probably) being concave.<br /><br />I've done a little research about the shape of pruning knife blades and they vary quite a bit in terms of how much of the cutting edge is concave and how pointed/hooked the end of the blade is.<br /><br />Not all pruning knives are, however, concave. See, for example, this knife: <a href="http://www.frostproof.com/catalog/hsk1.html" rel="nofollow">Sandvik-Bahco All Purpose Knife</a>.<br /><br />Without seeing the knife found at Harrowdown Hill there is some residual uncertainty about the shape of "the knife" and whether "the knife" could actually have made the wounds. But for a "typical" shape pruning knife it seems to me that there is a significant mismatch between the knife and the wounds.<br /><br />That mismatch exists even putting aside, for the moment, the question about whether a 40 or 50 year old knife could be sharpened properly, David Kelly's inability to sharpen his knife (according to Mai Pederson) and his limitations in cutting steak (again according to Mai Pederson).<br /><br />Needless to say the Hutton Inquiry didn't even ask the question of whether the knife could have made the wounds.Andrew Watthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03829322263100808179noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7713282434144514700.post-42015136047619509872011-06-04T22:08:59.985+01:002011-06-04T22:08:59.985+01:00Thanks for the GW link, Tim. I hadn't spotted ...Thanks for the GW link, Tim. I hadn't spotted that one. The parallel with Kelly is that the Inquest into Williams has for the time being been kicked into the very deep rough though on spurious grounds <a href="http://tswktm.blogspot.com/2011_03_31_archive.html" rel="nofollow">as noted in the same blog</a> and as simultaneously reported without any comment or deeper inqury by the supine mainstream media.felixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12363991252776819712noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7713282434144514700.post-18014803302621899262011-05-29T14:48:11.974+01:002011-05-29T14:48:11.974+01:00The blade's cutting edge was also, IIRC, conca...The blade's cutting edge was also, IIRC, concave - which might suggest that to reach a given internal point by slicing/sawing, the wound would have to extend even further on either side than if the blade were straight. (Schematic example - to reach the centre of a cylindrical object, the incision would have to extend more than half way around the surface).<br /><br />I suppose the alternative is that the tip of the knife could have been used in box-cutting or gouging fashion, perhaps held with the blade extending downwards from the back of the hand. <br /><br />I don't know how plausible this is - probably not very, since the blade is not stubby as a Stanley is (and . I think people tend not to have a very clear idea of how hard it is to cut (uncooked) flesh, especially when you don't have a freshly sharpened Sabatier. This would not of course explain the lack of spray.<br /><br />Another thing - is it possible that he could have cut his wrist elsewhere before arriving at the place(s) where the body was found? I assume the spray/droplets on nearby leaves were taken as indicating otherwise, and of course the forensics would be exposed as hopelessly flawed if they had missed a trail of blood leading from elewhere, but still thought I'd mention it as you will need to cover all the angles for a deductive (impossibility, Holmesian) proof.<br /><br />If he did stagger there from elsewhere, that would provide the only innocent explanation for the abrasions (and perhaps the bruising) observed, flippantly dismissed at the Hutton job as caused by 'thrashing around in the undergrowth, if you like', rather than, say, any kind of <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5XTK4W2qFY" rel="nofollow">struggle</a>. Because there wasn't any evidence of a struggle, as we were informed.<br /><br />(The underlying, er, logic looks to me like 'read-ahead': since it would just be too far-fetched for a violent-death investigator to suppose that there could have been a struggle, anything that looks like evidence of one can't really be, of course.)<br /><br />BTW talking of Holmes, <a href="http://shatasm.blogspot.com/2010/09/preface.html" rel="nofollow">this</a> is an engaging site about the Gareth Williams 'suicide', with lots of info (the inferences as always to be assessed critically).Tim Wilkinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15237522140184882034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7713282434144514700.post-70493073875524524482011-05-28T13:10:15.163+01:002011-05-28T13:10:15.163+01:00LL,
You're right that there are many more dis...LL,<br /><br />You're right that there are many more discrepancies in the evidence.<br /><br />BUT ... if nobody can demonstrate how you can use a pruning knife to produce the documented forensic evidence then, eventually, however much the "cover-up" goes to the very top, the official (Hutton) story will unravel.<br /><br />If nobody can demonstrate how David Kelly could produce the wounds and blood pattern (or lack of it) then the "suicide hypothesis" collapses.Andrew Watthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03829322263100808179noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7713282434144514700.post-25415659945191786842011-05-28T13:04:13.261+01:002011-05-28T13:04:13.261+01:00Andrew
If no 3rd persons were involved Dr Kelly h...Andrew<br /><br />If no 3rd persons were involved Dr Kelly had to be sitting approx 4 feet from a tree behind him, his legs outstretched in front of him (for someone suffering from a bad back as Dr Kelly was this is an extremely uncomfortable position to sit in.)<br /><br />Dr Kelly then leaned over to his left, hacked at his wrist several times until he felt he had done enough, then dropped the knife and then he sat upright again and then lay down or became unconscious and fell back.<br /><br />If Dr Kelly had become unconscious whilst he was in the process of cutting his wrist he would have collapsed over to his left and not be in the straight line, flat on his back where he was allegedly found.<br /><br />It would also have been impossible for Dr Kelly to place the props at the scene in their positions from his sitting or lying down position. <br /><br />Even if the knife found at the scene was a Stanley knife, Dr Kelly would not have been able to position the items around him without some help.LancashreLadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05635388809036821102noreply@blogger.com